"Just Make It Stop!" - Driven to the Edge: Sophie Burch (Part 1)

SOPHIE BURCH: 00:00:00

He had silent reflux.

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So we had this screaming, angry baby

that wouldn't sleep, that was in agony.

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And I could see he was, and

I was desperate to try and

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help him, and I couldn't.

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And I was exhausted absolutely crumbling.

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I was holding Milo, he was

screaming, and I'd tried everything,

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and I was about to shake him.

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I was that close, every bit of me

was just like, "just make it stop!"

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I remember calling a friend who

lived around the corner saying,

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"you've got to come now, help!

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I'm about to do something awful".

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Having a baby is meant to be the

most joyful time of your life.

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But for many mums, and ------dads,

it can be the hardest, and at

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---times the darkest of places.

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Welcome to Season 3 of Blue

MumDays, the podcast for anyone

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struggling with parenting.

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You need to know that you are not alone.

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And these awful feelings

will not be with you forever.

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Just one word - all the stories

shared here are from the heart.

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These are real conversations

and may be triggering, so

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please listen with discretion.

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Your wellbeing is so important, so if you

need to take a breather or stop listening,

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please know that you can at any point.

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Today's episode covers neonatal

intensive care and birth trauma.

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We will also signpost you

to help in the show notes.

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Thank you.

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This episode was recorded

during the winter of: 2023

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VIKKI: Today's guest is Sophie

Birch . After 17 years working in

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the birth and baby world, having

experienced mental health issues

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herself as a mother to four children,

and witnessing her partner's struggle,

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as well as hundreds of her clients,

Sophie decided that she had to listen.

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To look at what was right in front of her.

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And, take action.

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She believes we're missing a

trick if we're not putting some

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preventative work into preparing

for a baby on a mental level.

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To this end, she has written a book

'Beyond Birth, Mindful Early Parenting',

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to bring emotional wellbeing and

mental health awareness to all people,

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starting from conception, for life.

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Sophie is trained in hypno CBT,

hypnobirthing, aromatherapy,

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baby massage, and Reiki.

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She is an Ambassador for Make Birth Better

and supports Panda's perinatal mental

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health charity, as well as appearing

on the expert parental mental health

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panel at The Baby Show alongside Dr.

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Punam Krishan.

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In 2021, she won a LUXLife award for

best online parenting mindfulness guide.

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Well, I'm absolutely delighted to

have you with us today, Sophie.

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Thanks so much for coming on the podcast.

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It's been a long time coming, hasn't it?

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We've been trying to, have this

conversation for about a year.

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So thank you for your

patience and bearing with me.

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SOPHIE BURCH: Oh, thank

you for having me, Vikki.

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This is great.

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I've been looking forward

to this conversation.

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VIKKI: Oh, fantastic.

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I have a feeling it might end

up being a two- parter because

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we've got so much to cover today.

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and I just want to apologise to listeners

because I've got a cold at the moment.

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We're recording this in

February, early February: 2023

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So apologies if I'm sounding

extra snuffly today.

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So Sophie, yeah, would you like to start?

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SOPHIE BURCH: I think probably

from the beginning, 17 years ago,

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being pregnant with my first baby.

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I at the time, I didn't know it,

but I had antenatal depression.

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It wasn't until a couple of years

later on, that we recognised that

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what I was experiencing was antenatal

depression in that pregnancy.

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The backstory to that was that I was

working in an industry that wasn't

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very kind to pregnant people.

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They were trying to

force me out of my job.

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VIKKI: My goodness.

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SOPHIE BURCH: And there was a lot of

constructive dismissal going on.

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So I felt...

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you know, it was difficult.

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I also wasn't living with my

partner at the time, because

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we hadn't been long together.

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So I was actually living on my

own, being pregnant, and going to

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work every day, dealing with a very

difficult working environment, for

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the first six months of my pregnancy.

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But also, that pregnancy I had been told

was never really meant to be, because

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I was also going through lots of tests.

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I'd given myself up as a guinea pig

for Professor Franks, who was a leader

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in the polycystic ovarian syndrome.

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And I was told that I probably, most

likely, couldn't ever conceive on my own.

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So I had thought that I wasn't

going to be able to have children.

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So it was a bit of a shock finding out

that I was pregnant, with this chap that

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I hadn't long been with, and in a job

that I was, you know, being forced out of.

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The first six months of that

pregnancy were pretty trialling.

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And it's no wonder now, you know,

doing what I do, that I recognise

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that, yeah of course I was depressed,

but I was holding it together.

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I was in avoidance mode.

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I was just putting one foot in front of

the other every day as best as I could.

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Six months into that relationship,

I finally moved in with my partner.

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We lived in completely different cities

- I was in Brighton, he was in London.

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So I moved in with him at six

months and got myself a temping

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job, for another few months.

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And we did an N C T (National

Childbirth Trust) course, antenatal.

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I can't remember learning a

huge amount in that course.

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I remember being quite freaked out by

being shown images of forceps and things

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like that and thinking, "oh goodness!"

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But the social aspect of it was great,

And I'm still friends with several of

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the people that I met on that course.

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But I really came away from

that not knowing that much more.

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Now, I don't actually blame

the N C T teacher for that.

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I just think that I wasn't

in the right frame of mind.

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I didn't know what to expect.

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My mother had said to me, giving

birth is like crapping a watermelon!"

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or And I thinking "Oh my God, you

know, how am I going to do this thing?!"

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And so sort of pretty ill equipped really.

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I hadn't really learnt how to breathe

properly, I hadn't learnt to relax

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properly, and of course I was still

going through so much change in

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terms of my personal life as well.

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Settling into a new house,

a new relationship, feeling

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quite transient in terms of my

career - what was I going to do?

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So there was a lot going on.

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So when I, went into labour, I

didn't really know what to expect.

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I hadn't really thought about pain

relief, I hadn't thought about anything.

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And the first few hours

were actually great.

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At home I let my husband sleep,

and it was all wonderful.

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And then it came time

to go to the hospital.

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And I walked through the

hospital doors and I freaked out.

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And didn't want to be in the hospital,

completely didn't want to be there,

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but of course had to be there.

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Cut a long story short, it ended up

being a traumatic shoulder dystocia

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delivery, which is quite rare.

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It means he got a bit stuck coming out.

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And they had to resuscitate my baby for

more than three minutes and rush him into

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N I C U (Neonatal Intensive Care Unit).

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What I remember seeing is this grey

floppy baby, whisked away from me.

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I was in shock, trauma, being stitched up.

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VIKKI: Did you get a chance

to hold him or how, or was he

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literally just taken, sped away?

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SOPHIE BURCH: It was very emergency.

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Everybody had jumped on me because

it's quite a violent procedure.

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And they had had to break his

collarbone to get him out of me.

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VIKKI: My goodness.

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SOPHIE BURCH: And then he was in N

I C U, and I was being stitched up

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with an obstetrician that was, her

hands were shaking so much she was

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apologising to me at the time saying,

"I'm sorry, that's the first shoulder

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dystocia I've ever had to to deal with".

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And I've since spoken to medical

professionals who say, "yeah, it is

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it's a it's a real emergency procedure.

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It is scary for everybody, traumatising

for the staff and obviously for those

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who are experiencing it in every

physical way and emotional way too.

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Because I remember at the time just

thinking, "Oh my goodness, I was never

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meant to have this 'baby, was I?"

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And that was the thought in my

head that I thought, "This was it.

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I was meant to go through

something horrendous and I

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was never meant to be a mum."

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That was the thing.

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Because I convinced myself he was dead.

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I absolutely thought that he was gone.

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And my husband didn't know what to do.

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I mean, he was completely

in shock as well.

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And, you know, the story goes on.

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He's fine.

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He's 17.

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He's strapping.

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He's brilliant.

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They said that there

would be special needs.

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There amazingly wasn't.

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Now I support a lot of people

who go through experiences like

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that, you know, because so so much

empathy and compassion for them.

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And I've heard a lot worse than that.

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and I feel really lucky, in so many

ways, that it could have been different.

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But, as it was, it was traumatising.

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So, I experienced birth trauma, but

didn't know what it was at the time.

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Now I do.

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I also then, when I got my baby

home a week later, amazingly,

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he made a really good recovery,

and, after a week, got him home.

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But then nobody followed up.

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So I had no follow up, at all,

from the whole experience.

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It was over Christmas - he was

born on Christmas Eve - and I

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think there must have been an

admin issue in terms of getting the

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right notes to the right people.

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But we had to phone up the hospital

five days later to say, "is

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the midwife coming to check me?

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Is somebody coming to see us?

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" Because nobody had.

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And it sort of continued from there.

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So, fast forward a year, I was in the

full throes of postnatal depression,

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but I hadn't reached out.

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But what I had done was I'd gone into

overdrive mode, in terms of setting up

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myself as a baby massage instructor, to

avoid what I was thinking and feeling.

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I mean, Oli had colic.

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He was a really difficult baby for the

first, you know, it wasn't his fault.

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He'd gone through trauma like

I had, but nobody told us.

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There was no support whatsoever.

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So we just battled on and

it was really hard work.

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And the only way I could cope

was just to reinvent myself.

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So I was out by the end of that first

year, I was like running a business,

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teaching baby massage to parents.

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And seeing lots of people coming through

the door who were really struggling.

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And there was an element of me

doing what I was doing that was

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purely therapeutic for me, but

equally hoping to just hold others.

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And seeing the benefits of oxytocin

and loving touch and being calm

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and connecting with our babies.

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In a space that felt really sacred, and

that, for me, was just like, "wow, this

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is what's helping me to heal", and I

could see it was really helping others.

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But it was a year down the line, and my

family finally had the courage to say to

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me, "Sophie, you're not yourself, this

is not, this is not right, my love".

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I was just charging!

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VIKKI: Did you feel sort of deep

down inside that things weren't

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right yourself, that you were just...

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SOPHIE BURCH: yeah.

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VIKKI: ....putting

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that thought away?

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SOPHIE BURCH: Definitely.

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I couldn't bear it.

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Any time I went anywhere near the

hospital or anybody talked about

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it, really massive flashbacks.

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I was having terrible

nightmares still of Oli dying.

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I was in a really bad state, but I

was also terrified that, if I went

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to a doctor or I spoke the truth

to anybody about how I was feeling,

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that Oli would be taken away from me.

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VIKKI: Which is a really

common feeling, isn't it?

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Or fear?

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SOPHIE BURCH: It is.

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It's huge.

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It is huge.

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And I have so many people come to me

and say, "Gosh, yes, you know, that

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was the reason it took me so long

to reach out to you, to get help.

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And it is a big fear, you know,

and of course our minds play tricks

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on us and exacerbate that fear

too when we're, mentally unwell.

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So there I was a year later,

and it was his first birthday.

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And I just completely broke down.

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It all came flooding back.

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And my family managed to convince me to

go to the G P (General Practitioner).

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The G P got me to fill in the forms,

you know, asking the questions.

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At the time, I lied quite a lot on

the forms as well, because, again,

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I was just like, "it's not that

bad, I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay."

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Had I answered those forms correctly,

I may well have been whisked straight

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off into a, you know, mother and baby

unit, because I was feeling...you

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know, I was getting a lot of very,

very scary intrusive thoughts that I

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was scared that I was going to act on.

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There were a couple of days where

I literally left him crying in the

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house and walked down the street,

thinking I was going to just run

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a mile or jump in front of a car.

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If I'm being really

honest, it was that bad.

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VIKKI: Goodness, you poor thing.

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SOPHIE BURCH: Held it together.

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I would always go back home and

then hold him so close and go

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"I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry".

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You know, but there was nobody really.

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The G P, six months later I

got help, it was six months.

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They prescribed me Sertraline,

which is an S S R I (Selective

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Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor).

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It did make make a little difference.

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It did.

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By the time I got into C B T Therapy

(Cognitive Behavioural Therapy), I

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had actually sorted myself out a lot.

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I talked to friends, I finally opened

up and I carried on running my business.

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And I was looking at my 'in spite

of' story and feeling proud at

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how I'd got to where I'd got to.

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But equally feeling really angry

on the inside too, about how

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nobody had ever followed up,

and how I hadn't had any help.

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And how I really, really

badly needed the help.

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And, you know, nobody

had asked me how I was.

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It was always about Oli, "How was Oli?"

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Of course, you know, he'd gone

through a really tough time.

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VIKKI: Yeah.

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it's always "how's baby?"

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Yeah.

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SOPHIE BURCH: And then I realised, I

was like, "You know what I've got to do?

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I've got to do some more training,

because I have to go and help others.

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I can see that there is a

huge, huge gap in support."

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And I knew it wasn't just me.

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Because I was seeing lots of

people coming through the door

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who were equally struggling.

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VIKKI: Which is sad but true.

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It just shows how many people are

affected by this illness or sort of

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permutations of perinatal distress.

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So did anybody at any point ever

mention birth trauma, P T S D

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(post stress disorder) to you?

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SOPHIE BURCH: No - not even in my C B T.

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Interestingly, we really

didn't talk about the birth.

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Now, I don't know if that was

because the therapist herself...

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wasn't specialist in

perinatal mental health.

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She didn't really know much

about birth trauma or postnatal

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depression as far as I could see.

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So I don't think it was her fault.

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I think we just got off on the wrong path.

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We did talk about the depressive

nature of that first year for me.

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It wasn't until I became a therapist

myself, and I did extra training

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in perinatal mental health, that

I realised what I had experienced.

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VIKKI: Did you at any point consider

having a debrief with the hospital?

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SOPHIE BURCH: I still at that point

couldn't go near that hospital.

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And felt very betrayed and

let down by the system.

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So no, I didn't want to go near.

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I was angry.

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Yeah.

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It took me quite a few years

to kind of process that.

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So it did happen, and in a

very natural kind of organic

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way when it needed to, I feel.

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Had anybody tried to force me into a room

for a debrief in that first 18 months

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to two years, it wouldn't have worked.

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VIKKI: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So my goodness, I mean, wow, even

just your pregnancy in itself

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sounds like a veritable melting

pot of stress, and transition.

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And just even the fact you were saying

about the polycystic ovary syndrome, that

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you didn't think you would be able to get

pregnant and how then finding yourself

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pregnant you know, in a new relationship

with somebody that you're not living with.

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You know, that's a whole

barrel full of emotions.

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Let alone the traumatic, toxic

sounding situation at work.

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I think the strongest person would have

found that very, very hard to deal with.

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What level of support did you

have around you at that time?

306

: 00:17:08

Just my husband.

307

: 00:17:09

And my new friends.

308

: 00:17:11

So my mum was living abroad,

same with my father as well.

309

: 00:17:17

My husband's family were living not

so far away, but I didn't really know

310

: 00:17:22

them very well, and didn't feel I

could be honest about my thoughts

311

: 00:17:27

and feelings with them either.

312

: 00:17:29

I was still in the throes of

sort of trying to impress them.

313

: 00:17:33

I mean, the wonderful thing about

my relationship with my husband,

314

: 00:17:38

you know, then and now, is that we

really, really adored each other.

315

: 00:17:43

He's an incredibly resilient,

emotionally resilient human being.

316

: 00:17:48

Because of his love for me, and

obviously for Oli as well, you

317

: 00:17:52

know, he was able to hold me.

318

: 00:17:54

It was scary for him, I know.

319

: 00:17:55

I mean, we've talked a lot about it.

320

: 00:17:58

He didn't know what to do.

321

: 00:18:01

There were days he was

afraid to leave Oli with me.

322

: 00:18:05

We'd had a tough night and he

was thinking, "I can't go to

323

: 00:18:08

work, I'm scared to leave them".

324

: 00:18:10

But equally, you know, I

think he also went through

325

: 00:18:13

postpartum anxiety for sure.

326

: 00:18:17

But again, we, you know, wouldn't

talk to anybody about that.

327

: 00:18:21

And we were the first of our bunch

of friends who'd had a child as well.

328

: 00:18:25

So we didn't really have any peers, you

know, to share with in that way either.

329

: 00:18:30

I bumped into a very old friend who I

hadn't seen for ages, pushing her buggy

330

: 00:18:34

around the park as well in London,

and we both went, "Oh my goodness!"

331

: 00:18:38

And we lived just down

the road from each other.

332

: 00:18:40

So we became really good friends.

333

: 00:18:42

She introduced me to another couple of

people who'd just had babies as well.

334

: 00:18:45

So we had this great group of us

that then became thick as thieves.

335

: 00:18:51

And obviously all the teaching

that I was doing as a baby

336

: 00:18:54

massage instructor was great.

337

: 00:18:56

So then I did some more training because

I was just like, "I need to help others".

338

: 00:19:00

And then got pregnant again with

my second boy, and learnt

339

: 00:19:08

to be a hypnobirthing teacher

at that point as well.

340

: 00:19:11

Because I started to realise what

went wrong in my labour and thought

341

: 00:19:15

"I need to make sure that that

doesn't happen again" as well.

342

: 00:19:19

So how old was Oli when you found

out you were pregnant again?

343

: 00:19:23

SOPHIE BURCH: He was about 20 months.

344

: 00:19:25

VIKKI: Yeah.

345

: 00:19:25

SOPHIE BURCH: I was really shocked

again to find out that I was pregnant

346

: 00:19:29

with Milo because again, I was

thinking the polycystic ovarian

347

: 00:19:34

syndrome, you know, nobody had

ever followed up on that either.

348

: 00:19:36

So I didn't know if I still had it or...

349

: 00:19:39

Milo's pregnancy was a very happy

one, actually, because I was in

350

: 00:19:43

the throes of running my business.

351

: 00:19:45

I'd done all this training.

352

: 00:19:46

I was excited.

353

: 00:19:47

I was supporting people.

354

: 00:19:49

And I was preparing for a

hypnobirth, because of what had

355

: 00:19:53

happened in the first birth.

356

: 00:19:57

They wanted me to go into the hospital,

but I dug my heels in and said "no,

357

: 00:20:00

if I go into the hospital, the same

thing's gonna happen again, I need

358

: 00:20:03

to be at home where I feel safe."

359

: 00:20:06

And I was really lucky, I did have a

very, very beautiful home birth with Milo,

360

: 00:20:12

and it was such a healing experience.

361

: 00:20:14

It really, really was

transformative in so many ways.

362

: 00:20:18

And that instilled more hope in me,

because I thought if I can do it, after

363

: 00:20:23

everything I've gone through, then I can

definitely help others to do the same.

364

: 00:20:28

So that's where I then trained

to be a hypnotherapist as well,

365

: 00:20:31

and with CBT, so it's cognitive

behavioural hypnotherapy that I do.

366

: 00:20:36

VIKKI: I was going to ask you how

emotionally you felt when falling

367

: 00:20:41

pregnant again after such a traumatic

... birth, because for me, after my birth

368

: 00:20:48

trauma, it took me a good few years

of postnatal depression to come out

369

: 00:20:53

the other side and think I could even

contemplate having another child.

370

: 00:20:58

SOPHIE BURCH: Yeah.

371

: 00:20:58

I think because I worked with parents

day in, day out, and I saw so many

372

: 00:21:04

different stories, so many different

experiences that I felt curious.

373

: 00:21:11

And intrigued to do it again

myself and to do it differently.

374

: 00:21:16

And it was this kind of desire to prove

to myself as well as the world around me

375

: 00:21:25

that it didn't have to be that way again.

376

: 00:21:30

He had reflux, silent reflux, which

didn't get diagnosed for 20 weeks.

377

: 00:21:36

So we had this screaming, angry

baby that wouldn't sleep, that was

378

: 00:21:43

in agony, and I could see he was.

379

: 00:21:45

And I was desperate to try

and help him, and I couldn't.

380

: 00:21:48

And I was exhausted, and it really did

trigger all of the old thoughts and

381

: 00:21:54

feelings again, of "I'm not capable, I

can't cope with this, maybe I'm not meant

382

: 00:21:58

to be a mum, what am I doing, who am I?"

383

: 00:22:01

All the shame, all the guilt,

all sorts of things coming up.

384

: 00:22:05

And for anybody that has baby

with reflux will understand the

385

: 00:22:10

pain that you equally go through and

you just feel so helpless to know

386

: 00:22:15

what to do and how to help them.

387

: 00:22:17

I had many, many what I call

headless chicken moments of just

388

: 00:22:20

trying to fix everything and just

not feeling in control at all and

389

: 00:22:25

crumbling, absolutely crumbling.

390

: 00:22:28

I remember calling a friend

who lived around the corner and

391

: 00:22:33

saying, "you need to come now."

392

: 00:22:35

And I was holding Milo- he was

screaming, and I'd tried everything,

393

: 00:22:41

and I was about to shake him.

394

: 00:22:43

I was that close.

395

: 00:22:45

And every bit of me was just

like, "just make it stop".

396

: 00:22:50

And I phoned her and I said,

"you've got to come now".

397

: 00:22:53

And...

398

: 00:22:53

sorry...

399

: 00:22:56

She she came and she took him off

me, and I went for a walk, and um...

400

: 00:23:04

so even with everything that I knew

at that point, I still got pushed to

401

: 00:23:10

that moment because I didn't have any

support still, apart from my friends.

402

: 00:23:17

And when I came back in, I felt a lot

better, I breathed, I'd bathed in nature,

403

: 00:23:23

I'd gone into the park, I'd done all the

things that I knew to do, I'd grounded.

404

: 00:23:29

And it did really help, but it just

goes to show that even as much as you

405

: 00:23:34

know, it still doesn't take away those

moments of just sheer helplessness

406

: 00:23:40

of, you know, I'm just really grateful

for the fact that I had a moment of

407

: 00:23:44

clarity to call her and say "help me".

408

: 00:23:48

And perhaps a couple of years before, I

might not have, had I got to that point.

409

: 00:23:53

Luckily, amazingly, I never

quite got to that point with Oli.

410

: 00:23:58

Close, but never did.

411

: 00:24:00

But I hear stories of people doing

that and I think, I can understand why.

412

: 00:24:07

Because you're not yourself.

413

: 00:24:08

You're so triggered.

414

: 00:24:10

That baby is a sabre toothed

tiger attacking you to your

415

: 00:24:14

nervous system at that moment.

416

: 00:24:16

You go into fight response,

everything goes out the window

417

: 00:24:20

in so many ways, and it's scary.

418

: 00:24:23

And then, of course, you've got that

awful guilt, awful shame, again,

419

: 00:24:27

piling on top of everything else.

420

: 00:24:30

And it's another reason why I do

what I do now, and keep showing up,

421

: 00:24:35

and keep talking about these things,

because I know that more people than

422

: 00:24:40

not actually do experience this,

but never talk about it, you know?

423

: 00:24:46

It's terrifying, and we need to

normalise it enough so that people

424

: 00:24:51

feel confident enough to make that

call like I did, and say "help!...

425

: 00:24:56

I'm about to do something awful".

426

: 00:24:58

VIKKI: Yeah, yeah, and it's

not you, it's the illness.

427

: 00:25:02

And it's the lack of sleep

and all of those things.

428

: 00:25:06

And as you say it's about your fight

or flight response is so triggered.

429

: 00:25:13

SOPHIE BURCH: Yeah it is.

430

: 00:25:15

VIKKI: But I can imagine the aftermath

of that, you know, and how I'm sure you

431

: 00:25:21

must've beaten yourself up a huge amount.

432

: 00:25:23

SOPHIE BURCH: Oh yeah, yeah.

433

: 00:25:24

I mean I did.

434

: 00:25:28

But also at that point I was able

to talk about it all, you know?

435

: 00:25:34

And I journalled as well, I've got

journals full of these moments, because

436

: 00:25:41

it helped me to process everything

that I was thinking and feeling.

437

: 00:25:47

And therefore how I was acting.

438

: 00:25:50

All the training that I was doing at the

time was helping me so much and equally

439

: 00:25:54

bearing witness for others, listening to

others who were coming to me, you know.

440

: 00:26:00

And that level of empathy and

compassion was was very healing.

441

: 00:26:04

That sense of well meaning, because

it became part of my 'in spite

442

: 00:26:07

of story', it's my narrative.

443

: 00:26:09

It's how I heal, is to continue

to practice what I preach and

444

: 00:26:15

equally to hold space for others and

help them to feel held and heard.

445

: 00:26:19

But I

446

: 00:26:20

VIKKI: I started to formulate an idea

in my head about more grassroots

447

: 00:26:26

support sessions for parents,

you know, with basic skills.

448

: 00:26:31

So what I started to do in my baby massage

classes was include a bit of relaxation,

449

: 00:26:37

some breath work, a little bit of

450

: 00:26:39

SOPHIE BURCH: affirmations.

451

: 00:26:40

Some chat on " how did you

feel when your baby's crying?

452

: 00:26:44

Let's talk about that.

453

: 00:26:46

What does it look like to

nurture yourself, as well

454

: 00:26:49

as to nurture your baby?"

455

: 00:26:50

So we'd start to kind of

expand on what we were doing.

456

: 00:26:54

So it wasn't necessarily just

about the baby massage and all the

457

: 00:26:57

loveliness that came with that.

458

: 00:26:59

It was more also for parents to

reflect a little more on where they're

459

: 00:27:03

at in a really kind of general way.

460

: 00:27:06

So we, you know, obviously these were not

therapy sessions for parents, but much

461

: 00:27:11

more just a chance to reflect healthily.

462

: 00:27:17

And to look at ways to ground and to

give themselves what they needed.

463

: 00:27:22

VIKKI: I think that sort of thing

is like really important, because

464

: 00:27:26

it's like you were saying, you

know, with your experience with Oli,

465

: 00:27:29

that it's so easy for the mum or

birthing partner to get forgotten.

466

: 00:27:35

And so to offer a space to these parents

and say, "actually, how are you feeling?

467

: 00:27:42

Let's do something for you".

468

: 00:27:44

You know, not just for baby.

469

: 00:27:46

I think that is such an

incredibly important thing.

470

: 00:27:50

How did you find your parents that came

to you, how did they respond when you

471

: 00:27:55

started introducing that sort of element?

472

: 00:27:58

SOPHIE BURCH: Loved it.

473

: 00:27:59

Yeah, absolutely loved it.

474

: 00:28:01

And you know, even with crying babies,

we'd sit and we'd say, "this is normal.

475

: 00:28:06

So, you know, look we can take

time for ourselves, even when

476

: 00:28:10

we are caring for others."

477

: 00:28:12

And this was the biggest penny

dropping moment because so many of

478

: 00:28:17

us are conditioned to just respond to

the needs of our babies constantly.

479

: 00:28:20

And then think that the only way

we can take time for ourselves is

480

: 00:28:24

to find time 'other than' in that

moment when you're caring for others.

481

: 00:28:30

And actually, you know, when I created

Beyond Birth, the main ethos of that was

482

: 00:28:34

actually, "no, we do this for ourselves at

the same time as taking care of our baby".

483

: 00:28:41

So when we give them a hug, we

take that hug, for ourselves.

484

: 00:28:43

When we give them water, we

have a glass of water ourselves.

485

: 00:28:46

When we go out for a walk with

them, because we we want to get

486

: 00:28:49

them out in the fresh air, we

focus on that for ourselves too.

487

: 00:28:53

We walk mindfully, we take

in nature around us, we're

488

: 00:28:56

more, you know, more aware.

489

: 00:28:58

And that really does help to fill

your cup, as it were, and de-stress.

490

: 00:29:04

To siphon off the stress just as

much as if you were going to go and

491

: 00:29:08

have half an hour's spa treatment.

492

: 00:29:10

So it's about that idea of taking the time

for you as you care for your children.

493

: 00:29:17

VIKKI: What a brilliant idea.

494

: 00:29:18

Because it is so, it's so important,

and everybody, you know, especially

495

: 00:29:22

when you're a parent, you are time poor.

496

: 00:29:26

And it's almost like a pressure in itself

when, as a new mum or new dad, you're

497

: 00:29:30

sort of reading about "Well, you've got

to take time for self care as well!"

498

: 00:29:35

So that's like another

thing to add to the list!

499

: 00:29:38

And a lot of what you're saying about the

benefit of the breath work, the mindful

500

: 00:29:43

walking, the getting out in nature.

501

: 00:29:46

These are all things that, for anybody

that's interested, there's an eight

502

: 00:29:50

minute episode with Justin Eade of

Glimpse Wellbeing, where he talks

503

: 00:29:55

about actually why going out for

that walk is so beneficial to you.

504

: 00:30:00

Not just to baby, but to everybody.

505

: 00:30:03

And I think it's especially important

when it's, you know, it's a beautiful,

506

: 00:30:07

sunny, wintry day here in London.

507

: 00:30:11

But yeah, those times when it's

raining and it's grey and it's

508

: 00:30:14

so hard to get yourself out.

509

: 00:30:17

And especially when you've got,

you know, a little one as well.

510

: 00:30:21

But it really can make such a

difference to your wellbeing.

511

: 00:30:24

SOPHIE BURCH: Ah, it really can.

512

: 00:30:26

And this is the other thing, you

know, as a hypnotherapist, I use

513

: 00:30:30

visualisation and suggestion and metaphor.

514

: 00:30:34

You know, the way we utilise the language

with ourselves, it is really powerful.

515

: 00:30:40

So on those days when you genuinely feel

that you cannot face going out in that

516

: 00:30:45

grey stormy weather, you know, you can

use the power of visualisation to escape.

517

: 00:30:51

And really use that combined with

sensory memory to actually you know,

518

: 00:30:57

create what we call a psychophysical

response that enables you to feel so

519

: 00:31:02

much better in the moment as well.

520

: 00:31:04

And it's like magic.

521

: 00:31:06

We forget we've got that, you know, we

see our children constantly being in

522

: 00:31:10

that sort of subconscious world where

they're role playing, they actually

523

: 00:31:14

believe they're, you know,

Tinkerbell or Peter Pan!

524

: 00:31:18

As adults you know, we lose touch

with that naturally because of the way

525

: 00:31:21

that our brain and our mind develop,

but we still have the power to do

526

: 00:31:27

that, I bear witness to that every

day in my job as a hypnotherapist.

527

: 00:31:31

You really can access change,

but, you know, self hypnosis,

528

: 00:31:34

all hypnosis is self hypnosis.

529

: 00:31:36

So self hypnosis is a

really powerful tool.

530

: 00:31:38

So we kind of include that in

my groups a bit now as well.

531

: 00:31:40

It's like, "okay, so where

do we need to go right now?

532

: 00:31:43

Let's just think, feel, act as if we are."

533

: 00:31:46

And there's so much power in that.

534

: 00:31:48

Okay.

535

: 00:31:48

It's not the same as being on that beach.

536

: 00:31:50

Sure.

537

: 00:31:50

Fair enough.

538

: 00:31:51

I get it.

539

: 00:31:52

But you can, in those moments, just

take those little, you know, my

540

: 00:31:56

colleague Suzy Reading's

coined this phrase,

541

: 00:31:59

' micro moments of time',

which is so powerful.

542

: 00:32:03

And I learnt that, you know, as a

mother, I was applying it all the time.

543

: 00:32:06

And I started to see the world

through the eyes of my children and

544

: 00:32:11

to be more playful, because it can

all feel really heavy, can't it?

545

: 00:32:15

So we need to sort lighten the mood.

546

: 00:32:17

The heaviness of meeting the demands of

others is, you know, it's exhausting.

547

: 00:32:21

It can suddenly feel really serious,

really monotonous, really lonely as well.

548

: 00:32:27

So it was like, okay, we can't go and

have those holidays, and we can't take

549

: 00:32:32

those spa breaks for ourselves, so how

do we use what we've got to make it

550

: 00:32:37

better, and what we're already doing?

551

: 00:32:40

So, that's really when Beyond Birth

started to come into fruition.

552

: 00:32:45

But then I found out I was

pregnant with my twins.

553

: 00:32:50

Thank you for listening to part

one of my conversation with

554

: 00:32:53

the incredible Sophie Birch.

555

: 00:32:55

We were having such a great chat and

Sophie had so much more to tell me, I

556

: 00:32:59

decided to split it into two episodes.

557

: 00:33:02

In part two, Sophie talks very

movingly about her experience of

558

: 00:33:06

Twin-to-Twin Transfusion Syndrome,

which happened during her pregnancy

559

: 00:33:10

with twins Reuben and Beau.

560

: 00:33:13

It's a rare but very serious

complication of twin pregnancies.

561

: 00:33:17

You may have heard of it

recently through the experience

562

: 00:33:19

of Jesy Nelson of Little Mix.

563

: 00:33:21

You can learn more about Sophie

and her work@nurtureyou.co.uk.

564

: 00:33:27

Thank you so much for listening

and thank you for your patience.

565

: 00:33:31

It was my hope to release an

episode of Blue MumDays season three

566

: 00:33:35

every first Monday of each month.

567

: 00:33:37

But unfortunately due to family

illness, I've had to take a

568

: 00:33:40

hiatus from the podcast, so I will

release episodes as and when I can.

569

: 00:33:45

Thank you for bearing with me.

570

: 00:33:48

The theme music is 'Sunrise

Expedition' by Joseph MacDade.

571

: 00:33:52

Hit follow to keep up with all the latest,

and if you enjoy Blue MumDays, please

572

: 00:33:57

leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

573

: 00:33:59

It helps more people to find us.

574

: 00:34:01

Thank you so much.